Hannibal and Scipio Africanus

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Alexandria and Rome Presentation 3 of 14 Hannibal and Scipio Africanus The Punic Wars, Roman Character, and Soldier Priests Presented by Roger Weir Thursday, July 15, 1982 Transcript: I think tonight's lecture is one of the most important in the entire series. It sets the tone for the eventual destiny of Rome in terms of its character and its historical destiny. And the character and destiny of Rome has been the character and destiny of the Western world ever since. So that in a nutshell, the events of the second Punic war some 2200 years ago have set an archetypal pattern, which we have been following ever since. And in many ways, the second Punic war was refought again in our time in the form of the Second World War. And many of the conditions that obtained in the spiritual perception of the Roman people have reoccurred in our own time in our generation. We would like to, I suppose, at all times just refer to the grand literary achievements of man. Or to the religious achievements of man. But there are times when on the historical stage and in the personages of Hermetic figures, usually in a military guard, that the spiritual funneling comes into sharp relief and focus upon the actual stage of contemporary events. We have that condition and the subject tonight. And it won't take any of you very long in reflection to see that it applies to our generation in our own time equally as well. I am not the first to observe this. And in fact, it has bothered a lot of classical historians to the extent that one of the greatest Arnold Toynbee who wrote the massive study of history. In 1965 wrote to huge volumes called Hannibal's Legacy: The Hannibalic War's Effects on Roman Life published in 1965. And in conversations with Toynbee in San Francisco, about 1966-67, just after this came out, he reiterated personally he has great concern that somehow an archetypal pattern had been tapped again in our own time. And the thread on the spool was playing itself out much like it had in Roman history at that time. So many of the observations that are to be applied to the second Punic War apply in a similar fashion to the Second World War. I think in terms of the cultural contracts that I should begin tonight as far from Rome as possible. Just to let you intuit and see for yourselves the enormous cultural contrasting between the Hellenistic world of the Eastern Mediterranean and the Roman agrarian military world of the Western Mediterranean, which were there side by side contemporaneously. I brought a translation of an Alexandrian poet, Hellenistic Greek poet of the 3rd century B.C., Theocritus. The Idylls of Theocritus who set the fashion for a poetic form, which he invented known as the pastoral. And in the 15th idyll he has a poetic conversation between two women in Ptolemaic Alexandria about the beginning of the reign of Philadelphus. And it runs something like this. There are two women, Gorgo and Praxinoa. Is Praxinoa at home. Gorgo, of course I'm home darling. How long it's been. It's a wonder you got here at all. Eunoa got a chair and put a cushion on it. It will do just as it is. Well, sit down then. Well, I'm a helpless thing Praxinoa, I barely got here alive through all the crowds and chariots, big boots and minute soldiers' cloaks all over the place. And the road going on forever. You really live too far out. It's that crazy husband of mine. He comes out here to the ends of the Earth and buys a shed, not a house, just so we won't be neighbors, out of sheer spite, the brute. He's always the same. Darling don't talk about your man Dinon like that when the little ones around. See women, how he's staring at you. There, there Zopyrion, honey. She doesn't mean daddy. Heavens the child understands. Nice daddy. All the same that daddy, the other day, it was just the other day I told him, dad, go get some soda and rouge at the street stall and he came back with salt, the big lummox. Mine's the same. Money, money is nothing to Diocleidas. Just yesterday for seven drachmas he bought dogs hair, pluckings of old wallets, five fleeces. He called them nothing but trash. And work on top of work, but come on, get your dress and cloak let's go and see the Adonis exhibit at the King's palace. Wealthy Ptolemais I hear that the Queen has got up a fine show. Everything's fine in fine houses. What you've seen you can talk about when you've seen it, and others haven't. It's time to go. Well, every day is a day off for people with nothing to do. Eunoa, you slovenly, pick up the spinning and hurry. Well, let's go. How's this look. And off they go to see Ptolemy's exhibit arranged by his wife in the palace. And there are long lines. At the same time as this sophisticated worldliness was obtaining in Alexandria, the farmer communities of central Italy had been battering at each other, literally with clubs and shields for so long that they had supposed that this was an honest way of life. And like the old Connecticut Yankees of 100-150 years ago, they rather suspected anyone who would look up from their lot in life and try to look over the horizon of what day to day hard life would bring. And by the time of the Second Punic War, which began in 218 B.C., we have the incredible contrast of an individual of extraordinary personality and genius arising in the upper classes of Rome. Who was given this extraordinary Hellenistic Greek vision and a capacity for mysticism, which would have been that home in Alexandria. And yet he rose out of these Roman pedestrian horizons and found himself all of his life, constantly trying to be hemmed in by these conservative old agrarian reforms. And we will see in the story as it develops that the person in whom this conservative almost a reactionary fear and mistrust of someone like Scipio Africanus was in case was M. Porcius Cato. And in Plutarch's Life of Cato [Life of Marcus Cato the Elder] in the first chapter he makes a great deal out of Cato having been brought up in very common, ordinary, old, Roman ways. Having in fact worked with his hands on the ground of the family farm. Plutarch of course makes a little slip in proportion when he says that Cato worked alongside the families' slaves on the land, which shows that they were indeed fairly large landowners. And in fact, the family farms were just part of the properties of M. Porcius Cato's family. But it was a fact that he did not come from a noble family. And I think here it's well to note that in the period of time that we're talking about only about 20 families ran Rome. Almost two thirds to three fourths of all the councils, the proprietors, the questers came from about 20 Roman families. The most distinguished of those families at this time, of course, were the Scipio and especially the [inaudible]. And it was an extraordinary event to have someone outside of this charmed circle of patrician families enter into the political picture. And especially in a dramatic way in which Cato finally emerged victorious. It was so extraordinary that the Roman term for such an individual, was it Novus Newman, a new man. A new man. In contrast to nobility somebody from the nobility. Scipio on the other hand, if you recall, from last week's lecture was an ancestor, had an ancestor who was there for the sack of Rome in 387. And one of the two councils, a certain Scipio along with Camillus restored Roman confidence at the time of the sack of Rome. So, for several hundred years, the Scipio's had been a distinguished family. Almost a legendary family. And in fact, Scipio's father and uncle held Generalships in the Roman army. His father was a council. And they were in fact at the time of the beginning of the second Punic War entrusted with the command of Roman legions to go to Spain. And after some time, there with moderate success were finally overcome. Their troops killed. The Generals killed. And at a very young age Scipio Africanus found himself in a position to cross over maybe 20 years of patient political growth and find himself as a successor to his murdered father and uncle at a very, very tender age. Now Scipio in later Roman annuals became more and more mysterious. And as time went on, he loomed larger and larger on the Roman horizon as some kind of a prophetic mystical religious figure. He was in fact in the next generation from him described by the great Greek historian Polonius as the most significant man to have lived upon the Earth up until that time. And the legends began to proliferate. And in a Hellenistic fashion, which was quite ordinary in Alexandria. For instance, he was said to have had a divine birth. That in fact, the God Jupiter himself had come in the form of a large serpent and had helped sire Scipio Africanus. And as a proof of this Scipio even as a teenager would habitually get up before dawn and go to the temple, the great temple of Jupiter Capitolinus. And in fact, was observed many times going up there. And the temple dogs who were usually kept there at night to keep away intruders, very vicious animals would not even bark at Scipio. And he would go up and commune in the temple of Jupiter Capitolinus habitually. And when any great decision was to be taken, he would be seen there contemplating for many, many, many hours alone. He was born about 236 B.C. And at a very tender age, it's somewhat up in the air, whether he was 17 or whether he was 21, but at a very tender age was elected as Aedile. And the aedileship was a fairly high up political elected post. And they were in charge of the games, hosting the games, keeping the seasonal festivals and so forth in Rome, under control. When news came that the Carthaginian Armies in Spain had managed to slip past the Roman legions and were heading with a large body of troops, some 35,000 infantry, some 10,000 cavalry, hundreds of war elephants, and one of the most triumphal Generals in history at the time man, Hannibal the son of the great Carthaginian General of the first Punic War. The Roman people were suddenly seized by panic and fear. And when Hannibal crossed over the Alps and came down into the Northern part of Italy in 218 B.C., it began to look as if some threatening thunderstorm was about to break. And in fact, the Barca name, Hannibal's family name was Barca. And in Phoenician language it meant Thunderbolt. And it's interesting to note that the Scipio family name also refers back to a lightning bolt type of [inaudible]. So that really in the names themselves, there were two lightning bolts struck on the end hole of circumstance in the second Punic War. Hannibal was opposed by picked legions. Some four or five legions were kept in Italy at all times. There were 11 legions in the entire Roman Republic at the time of the outbreak of the second Punic War. Half of them in central Italy. Hannibal won several important small battles and skirmishes. And the Roman people were told lies that it was due to mitigating circumstances and that at the next engagement Hannibal would be in fact stopped. And they sent a very capable General Flaminius, not to be confused with [inaudible] who was a protege of Scipio some 30 years later, 20 years later. But Flaminius with two Roman legions, which would have been a standard field army. Legion is about 10 to 12,000 infantry and about 900 cavalry or so forth. So, with a about 25,000 men went into the Northern part of Umbria. Rome is down here in [inaudible] here is Umbria and [inaudible] is Tuscany. And up here is Lake Trasimene. Hannibal was one of the most extraordinary characters in history. Often sized up as the greatest General of all time, except for the man who beat him, which was Scipio. Hannibal had spent a profitable year as a commander, gaining booty and beginning to work out a plan of attack. He had a fierce hatred for the Roman people. He had felt that the first Punic War was an insult to the Barca clan. That his father had been wronged. And the one thing that he had in his mind was to shred the Roman Republic. And his plan in large structure was not to attack Rome itself. Although at one point and his ravaging of Italy, he camped outside the city walls of Rome to let them see what a gorgeous figure he was. He was extraordinarily impressive as a human being. He had gotten an eye infection crossing the Alps, and one of his eyes was blinded. So, he wore a patch. And he was quite a large individual. And out of the first-generation of war elephants that had crossed the Alps, just one had survived and that was Hannibal's personal elephant. So, you can imagine this eye patched a man of great glorious physique astride of his elephant, and he has unconquered troops. And during the 15 years that he stayed in Italy, he was never beaten. So that we find at the long end of the second Punic War, when Hannibal and Scipio Africanus met each other, they were undefeated. Neither, neither had been beaten and battle up to the final battle of the second Punic War. But Hannibal at the time about 217 B.C. a year after he came into Italy, began flaunting himself between two Roman armies. A man named Servilius in this area of Italy and Flaminius in this area. And Hannibal put his army in between the two, hoping to draw Flaminius out into a fight. And even pulled in his flanking motions on his army and made one long column as if to naively parade himself as not knowing what he was doing or intentionally taunting Flaminius. And finally, after Flaminius and Servilius had had their scouts confirm their positions, Flaminius began to chase Hannibal. And Hannibal, who was a first-rate military mind. And you have to realize that we're talking about proportions here. He was in a class almost by himself. He had a sense that military strategy was so far beyond what other normal Generals in the field were that he was to them as those Generals would have been to someone like myself, absolute genius. He went along the shores, the North shore of Lake Trasimene. And there was a spot of about five miles where the Lake shore receded back, maybe a half a mile or so. And then the mountains came down almost to the Lake. And Hannibal, as soon as he got his army into this position rushed them into the hills and waited there. And when Flaminius and his Roman column thinned down to its two legions and went in between the lake and the hills, Hannibal had his [inaudible] and seal off the valley and they fell upon the Roman troops and cut them to pieces. The news of the destruction of this Roman land Army sent a shock of fear through the Roman people. And in particular, a lot of the allies of Rome, which had been hard won by patient battling and negotiation over the centuries began to show the first quivers of disintegration. Which is exactly the policy that Hannibal had in mind. In fact, when Servilius heard of the battle, he sent 4,000 cavalry on ahead. And Hannibal of course, was all prepared for this and swooped down and destroyed the cavalry from Servilius Army. So that with this great tragedy, the Romans decided that they would have to put a quick end to the career of Hannibal. And so, they taxed all of their allies and themselves to the utmost in terms of men and money. And they fielded eight legions of soldiers, some 90,000 fighting men and began to pursue Hannibal with this enormous Army. And finally, down in the Southern areas of Italy, not far from the Adriatic coast. At a placed called Cannae, Hannibal met this enormous Army of Rome, and he was outnumbered by quite a bit. But Hannibal [inaudible] troops [inaudible] tremendous population of Romans came in against his center line of self [inaudible] fighters and [inaudible] cavalry on one side and his current Virginia [inaudible] and backed up. This line slowly gave way until it became a concave rather than a convex motion. And the Roman Army with its enormous population and push realized that they were now outflanked by their own forward motion. And Hannibal sent his horse around both sides and trapped this enormous body of Roman Legionnaires. And they statistics for the Battle of Cannae are often disputed. I have consulted Livy and Polonius in classical matters and Toynbee and others in contemporary. And the best estimate is that the Romans lost about 55,000 killed that day and another 10 to 15,000 captured. And the news of Cannae following the news of Lake Trasimene the year before suddenly sent a horrific image through the Roman people. And In fact, very, very quickly small communities and Italy began to lay down their arms and open their doors to Hannibal and the Carthaginians. And in fact, that kind of a capitulation carried even to the great second most powerful city in Italy, aside from Rome was Capua. Down by Naples at that time, in Compania. And Capua was the great industrial center for the Roman Republic. And in a celebrated surrender it welcomed Hannibal and the Carthaginians. So that they Roman people as the people felt that they were being terrorized by a devil. By a demon. And for many of the Roman people this was a just dessert for the Romans had a strayed themselves from their old agrarian traditions. And had begun to imbibe these decadent Greek, or at least Hellenistic modes of life. And that they were now being punished by the Gods for their infidelity to their own traditions and background. And we have to backtrack just a little bit and bring in, I think, just one observation here. One thread of observation, the cult of Dionysius, just as an example. There were many examples that I could pick out. I'll take this one. The cult of Dionysius of course, had been a major feature of Greece as far back as Solon, certainly by Pericles day. The cult of Dionysius was firmly entrenched. In fact, the great tragedies were acted at their festivals and the theater of Dionysius in Athens. But the cult of Dionysius by the 2nd century B.C. had undergone as all Greek religious ceremony said undergone this wave of Hellenistic synthesis. So that the major figure in the cult of Dionysius ceremonies from time to time would be a very large phallic emblem rising among a spilled cornucopia of produce. Not so much to emphasize fertility, but to emphasize immortality. But this kind of imagery to the Roman farmer was a sacrilege. And so the spread of the Dionysic mystic religion rights with all of the other attendant images and symbols and rituals, which it would have brought in its [inaudible] became a tremendous offense to the Roman people. And exactly at the time and in the generation that this tremendous [inaudible] of Hannibal in their own country, ravaging the people and overcoming fabulous Roman numbers by the will of the Gods apparently. It was in this situation after Cannae and, and the tremendous feeling of unholy terror that Scipio Africanus really came on the scene and delivered a tremendous speech in the Roman Senate. He had been there at Cannae. He was involved only in one battle before, because he was a youngster really. At the Battle of Ticinus, when his father's life was in danger, he had ridden out ahead of the line of the fighting troops and he had become surrounded by Carthaginians. Scipio as a young man, probably 17 years old, no more had ridden out alone with his sword drawn and had actually inspired many of the Romans to follow him by his example. And they had saved his father's life. So, he had been somewhat distinguished. But added to this mysterious quirk of his of being in the public eye as not only a refined exquisite patrician with an excellent personality and refined manners. He also had this capacity for this mysteriousness. This darling of the God's image. And then added to that the third element of incredible personal bravery. Of military acumen. Scipio as a young man, became an object of attention. And in the next six or seven or eight years, when the fortunes of Rome seemed to be progressively undone and the city of Rome crushed more and more psychologically, the only highlights seemed to be the fact that there were some battles being won in Spain or in Sicily. Other places than Italy. And finally, news came of the death of the two Scipio's in Spain and their complete loss there. And so young Scipio Africanus presented himself before the Senate of Rome. A body of about 300 senior members of the community and claimed a right now as a private man to be appointed as a council and to be sent to Spain to avenge the family disgrace. And in an act, which at the time was unique in Roman history. And it was the first time that it had happened though it would happen in later history, another century or so later when [inaudible] also was given the [inaudible] council ship. Scipio Africanus was appointed without having gone through any of the intermediate phases as a council in charge of a couple of Roman legions and was sent off to Spain. And at that time, most of Spain, South of the Ebro River. [inaudible] a map of Spain and Ebro is in Northern Spain, almost up at the Pyrenees. Only maybe 75 miles or so from the Pyrenees. Everything South of there was Carthaginian hands except for a little city called Segunda. The capital of the Carthaginian Spain was New Carthage, Cartagena, which was secure like old Carthage had been because it was located on a peninsula so that it was accessible by land only on one side. Carthage the same way. So new Carthage, very, very secure place. Scipio landed up at a port and made his way down to what today is Tarragona. At that time named Tarraco. Tarraco. And when he arrived, he gathered together his troops and delivered a speech, which is reconstructed in imagination, of course, by the great Roman historian Livy. And I think we should hear this because Livy did a lot of research. Great artistic talent. Cited often as a greater artist than a historian. But I think this first speech of Scipio is just a paragraph out of it gives you tone of what Romans contemporary with Augustus would have thought proper for Scipio Africanus to have said about 150 years before. Never, has there been a new commander except myself who could with justice and propriety give thanks to his soldiers before he employed them. Fortunately, me under obligations to you [inaudible] I saw your camp or knew my problems. First because you showed such dutiful respect to my father and uncle during their lives and since their deaths. And next, because when the possession of the province had been lost by dreadful calamity, you recovered it by your bravery and have preserved it entire for the Roman people and for me, who succeeds the command. But as through the bounty of the Gods, the design of our present proceedings is not to maintain our own footing in Spain, but to deprive the Carthaginians of all footing in it. Not to stand on the bank of the Ebro and hinder the enemy from passing it, but to pass over ourselves and carry the war to the other side. I fear lest to some of you the undertaking may seem too great, too bold, considering the remembrance of our late misfortunes and my early time of life. There is no person living from whose memory the defeats and Spain can less be obliterated then from mine. For there my father and uncle lost their lives within the space of 30 days. And so that funerals in our family followed one another in quick succession. But while the disaster, which bereft our house of parents and left me almost the only surviving male member of it depresses me in my mind with grief still the fortunes of our nation in its courageous spirit forbid me to despair of this event. It is the lot assigned to us by some kind of fatality that in all important wars, we should pass through defeat to victory. And so, Scipio was setting the tone for an act that had never been considered in Roman history before this. They had always kept themselves Italy. And even in the first Punic War when they found themselves having Sicily and Sardinia and Corsica, they were just new worlds. They were not really possessions that had been assimilated. When Scipio arrived in Spain, about 210 B.C., right in the middle of the second Punic War, he addressed his legions forthrightly and declaimed to them that his purpose was to secure for the Roman people the entire country of Spain. This enormous province, almost the size of Italy itself. It had taken 500 years to secure most of Italy. And Scipio was now telling his men that with their backs against the wall, with their population terrorized by this demon, they not only would meet the challenge, but they would step across the Ebro and begin the conquest of this enormous province. But actually, Scipio had an even grander vision in mind. He had in his spirit, the vision that Rome had come of age in himself. And since he was capable of envisioning a vast empire united, uniting man together in this large universal conception, which Alexander had had before him. The idea of an ecumenical, a one world. And Scipio encouraged by small legends that he was in fact, a reincarnation of Alexander the Great. And had come back after this hundred years' time, almost a hundred years between them and was going to reinstate the ecumenical. Not with a Greek civilization exclusively, but with the Greek mind put on a Roman body, which would produce a superior man, one capable of setting up a world state. That the Greeks had had the mind for it, but hadn't had the character, the tough body population to carry it out. The Greeks could never work together. Whereas the Romans, if they did anything well, fit brick by brick into monolithic structures that are still standing. And so, Scipio's vision was that the time had come to reinstate the ecumenical, the one world vision, with a Greek mind and Roman body. And he, in fact, from the very first step on the Spanish soil, when he had for the very first-time command of a Roman army, foresaw that he was going to add, not just Spain but Africa and all of the Asian part of the Mediterranean, to the Roman people. And that the Republic would in fact, transform itself into this world ecumenical. I have in one of my volumes, I think it's in here. I think this is a…One of these volumes of Toynbee's I have a map of the Greek ecumenical as Alexander had envisioned it. And it spread literally across the known world at the time. And it is due to Scipio's a fantastic rapport with his troops, that he was able to get them to agree with him that they would pursue this event. It's probably in the back there at that one. Pursue it to this vision of his. He also cautioned his troops that this was not merely the dream of an individual. He was not just there as a Scipio to avenge the death and the disgrace of his father and his uncle. Nor simply as a Roman who was there to counterbalance the tremendous scathing that Hannibal was giving to the Roman people. But in fact, he had the best connections of all, that with the divine Gods themselves. And that he had been given dreams since he was a youngster, which had always come true. And in fact, he then related the story, which Livy and Polonius both account, that the beginnings of his political career, when he was elected to the aedileship, that he had had a dream several nights before, which he told to his mother. That both he and his brother would be elected to these posts, even though his brother was some years older than he and he was clearly underage. And got her to loan him a white Toga, which was the token at that time that one was standing for election to this office, on sort of like a dream vision bargain with his mother. And in fact, had worn this white Toga out and came home having had the dream confirm. So, he told his troops there at Tarraco that no less a God then Neptune himself beside him was behind this push. And that in fact, he had in mind for his very first engagement, the siege of New Carthage, some hundreds of miles down the coast in Carthaginian territory. Well, the troops were agas. What can you say? He's either mad or he's possessed by the Gods, and we might as well go. So, preparing his troops he took several months to make sure that they were drilled properly. In fact, Scipio all of his life attended to the small matters. He would go around to where the blacksmiths were working making sure that they were making the weapons right. He would go around to the food stuff supplies, the commissaries and so forth, and make sure that it was nutritional food. In all these millions of little ways. He was constantly checking like a good father would check the household and make sure that all the basic parts were working. And then he would drill his troops day-in and day-out in complicated group maneuvers until finally the blocky Roman army, which had served very well in these pedestrian wars of Italy, but which was being cut to pieces by Generals like Hannibal, who were thinking in terms of higher structural terms. Scipio began to produce a sense of mobility within the Roman lines so that groups within the lines would move as bodies. And in fact, the whole lines, they usually had a three-line army. And the [inaudible] was the first line and the [inaudible] the second line and the [inaudible] the third line. And [inaudible] the first line would go in and when enough were killed, the second line would replace them and so on. Scipio was to change all that. But he mustered his legions and in a bold move struck South through Carthaginian territory. And at this time the Carthaginians had three separate Armies in Spain. But Scipio had chosen the time when they were the nearest one was about 10 days away from New Carthage, Nova Cartagena. And in a rapid move for which he was forever famous and which he was able to repeat several times in his career, he forced marched his men down the coast of Spain, keeping his fleet of transports and [inaudible] and [inaudible] along the coast, just in case. They made it to New Carthage, which was this tremendous, fortified citadel and camping on a place called the Hill of Mercury. The Hill of Mercury. This Hermetic place by which Scipio is the darling of the Gods could view his first great triumph. He arranged his ships around on the seacoast of New Carthage, and then immediately launched an attack against the walls with men with enormous ladders. And in order to encourage the men Scipio himself went onto the field and into this tremendous rain of implements that the Carthaginians were throwing at the Romans. And he took with him three young men with shields to protect him. All of the besiegers realized that their commander was right there in the midst of it. And so did their darndest to get off these ladders and scale the walls. And the ships began to unload men and ladders on the seaside. And as this tremendous fray engendered and the den of battle went up, Scipio then left the battle scene, went back beyond the Hill of Mercury and with 500 picked men swept around this enormous [inaudible]. New Carthage is here on this peninsula and here the Mediterranean Sea. And there was a lagoon here in the [inaudible]. And when they reached the other side of this lagoon a tremendous wind came up. And with the ebb of the natural tide going out this tremendous north wind emptied the lagoon so that there were only about five or six inches of water. And with Scipio personally there are these 500 men rushed across this mile or two of the lagoon. And of course, this section of the walls of New Carthage were completely undefended. Nobody had ever suspected this. And Scipio had told this men that Neptune would be there helping them. They scaled the walls and dropped in, and they had the gates open before the Carthaginians, who were absolutely incredulous at this event could believe that here the Roman General was in their city with a enormous body of men. So New Carthage fell that day. And Scipio Africanus sent a shockwave through the Carthaginian empire. Now Scipio had one of these incredible personalities. He was a vivacious kind of an individual. And all through the campaigns, the 10 years that he was a council both in Spain and in Africa, he loved to meet personally with those individuals with whom he was fighting. To size them up in a way, but also, I think in a way to put the whammy on them. Because he had this incredible facilitate at smoothing a situation out. And even though he would be talking to his worst enemy, somebody that he had spent all of his life hoping to fight he had this tremendous affability. And it proved successful because after the siege of New Carthage, he began making sachets through the Spanish countryside, talking to all these chieftains. And they began to realize that this was indeed some God sent individual. In their eyes they were perfectly willing to believe that he was Alexander the Great. As far as they knew New Carthage should have been unattainable and the fact that he had done it in the first year that he was in Spain, his very first major battle, seemed to them proof enough. You have to realize that New Carthage was the center plug for the whole Spanish holdings of the Carthaginian people. When he got New Carthage, he got all of the military equipment that was held in reserve for the Carthaginian three Armies in Spain. He got all the silver mines. When Scipio finally year, several years later, went back to Rome he took with him some 15,000 pounds of silver from the mines of New Carthage. So, in one great move, he had simply denuded Carthage of money, equipment, and this popularity with the superstitious Iberians. The Celts Iberians. So, the Carthaginian leaders, there were two Hasdrubals. One was Hasdrubal son of Gisco who was way over towards [inaudible] on the Southern Atlantic coast of Spain. Mago, who was a son of, the brother of a Hannibal was up here in this area. And another Hasdrubal, Barca, was nearest, decided to challenge Scipio at a battle site known as Baecula. And it was unfortunate for him because Scipio had planned this confrontation for quite some time. He had been preparing the mobility of his troops for about a year and a half at this time. And in the Battle of Baecula was the first time that the Roman line, the three lines was broken up. And it was in a Valley situation where there were hills surrounding almost on three sides the fortifications of the current Carthaginians. So, they felt totally secure, and they had only one front line to take care of. And that was where the Roman army would come. And they felt secure that their troops would be able to overcome. Scipio took the pick of his cavalry and infantry, detached them from the main forces and had them run Pell Mell in a sort of a columnar formation down some little side ravines and emerge about a mile or so down back over the hills. And as they emerged from what looked like a Pell Mell run, they immediately fell into the position as they were falling upon the Carthaginian flanks. And this tremendous sudden impress on both sides of the Roman cavalry. And this is one of the first battles in which a Roman General use cavalry to great advantage. Before then it had been sort of decorative type of a piece of equipment. But under Scipio's training you would have groups of 30 or 40 riders making a long-serrated blade of slashing in, and there would be 30 or 40 more coming another way. In other words, the entire motion of these huge bodies of men would all be disciplined actions. And they would simply like a saw tooth blade cut the lines of opposing soldiers down. The Battle of Baecula in which Scipio destroyed the Carthaginian Army infuriated the remaining Carthaginian soldiers. And they felt that at all costs Scipio must be defeated on a battlefield. And so very quickly the next season the Romans were drawn into a battle at a place called Ilipa, which is near Seville in Southern Spain on the border between Andalusia and the [inaudible]. [inaudible] runs in between Andalusia Northern end Andalusia and La Mancha, which is on the other side of the [inaudible]. At this battle Scipio who all the time was refining his strategies and his capacities decided that he would introduce into his flanking motion, a whirlwind type of motion to his cavalry. Where he would send out a double [inaudible] and they would split into an L shape. And the bottom of the L would come out one way and the top would go around another. So that you had this kind of an odd whirlwind shape. So, at the Battle of Ilipa, when the Carthaginians were expecting a flanking attack, they couldn't make heads or tails out of the movements of the Roman flanking attack. It looked like some were retreating and some were charging. And to them, it was absolute chaos until they realized that this incredible buzzsaw effect was chewing them up. And again, the Carthaginians were defeated soundly by Scipio's incredible battle tactics. And with the defeat of the Carthaginians at Ilipa put together with New Carthage and Baecula suddenly the field seemed wide open. And Scipio in making a personal appeal to the leaders in Spain began to convert tribe after tribe over to the Roman cause. In fact, one of the great North African leaders, a man named Masinissa decided that Scipio was in fact some divine personage and pledged himself and all of his Numidian cavalry to help Scipio because Scipio confided to him that fame was just the first step. That depriving the Carthaginian Empire of the wealth and manpower of Spain was phase one and phase two was to go and deprive Carthage of its African populations and ground. And so, Masinissa made a special compact with Scipio that he would in fact support him when he got to Africa the following year. And Scipio in fact was given a letter from Masinissa and he went secretly across the Mediterranean to Spain to meet with another great African King named Syphax who was also astounded at Scipio's personality and audacity to come individually with just a few companions across and see him in the midst of the Carthaginian Empire. And he also agreed to support him. So, when Scipio went from Spain to Rome, he had already set in motion, the pattern for his great African campaigns. Well, I think we'd better stop there and have a break. Are we to that time? We'll have a break and then we'll come back. You have to imagine that with the bickering in the Hellenistic monarchies that the Southern… sudden rise of the Roman Republic was almost an inscrutable phenomenon to these old established areas like Egypt or Persia or Greece. The Carthaginians could be understood because they were for Phoenicians. They were also ancient. The Carthaginians as early as 490 B.C. had sent an enormous fleet of vessels through past Gibraltar and down the coast of Africa as far South, as the Cameroons in equatorial Africa. And not just one ship, but 3000 men and women and many, many ships. So, that the Phoenicians were very capable individuals and had a wide sea flung empire. But the rise of Rome was a peculiarity. It was kind of like the early American Yankee Republic. It was just really one farm added to another until after many hundreds of years, they held quite a chunk of territory. And then all of a sudden in one generation with the first Punic War they had hegemony and three islands around Italy. And then suddenly in the second Punic War in the next generation they had all of Spain, all of Italy and Sicily and Sardinia and Corsica, and were working on Africa and had their eyes already set on Asia. So then two quick successive generations they moved from farmers to a world empire. And even though it was still the Roman Republic, it would be so for just another hundred years, 150 years at the most. But already the idea of wrong was taking the ecumene of Alexander for its model. In 266 B.C. there are many different large groups by colored [inaudible]. And by the time that Scipio finished there was really almost no competitor to Rome whatsoever. There was just a question then of holding together what they had, fortifying it, integrating it. And the key to it all was Africa. Not Spain. Although Spain was enormous. The key to it was Africa. And in fact, his cognomen was Afrikaans in honor of that achievement. Before he went to Africa and when he had returned to Rome, he was refused a formal triumph. You know, parading around the Palatine Hill and going up to the sacred temple of Jupiter under Capitoline Hill, which was like the favorite roosting place for the spirit of Scipio. He was refused that because he was still a [inaudible]. He was a private citizen. He was there under a quirk of Roman law. A quirk in Roman law. He was still only about 30 years of age. He wasn't even old enough to hold a basic a Christer position. [inaudible] already had conquered all in Spain, defeated four Carthaginian Generals of very great repute. And when he came back to Rome and deposit this enormous mountain of silver and booty and so forth, it was an act to counterbalance the image that had been unloaded before the Carthaginian Senate after the battle of Cannae. When so many tens of thousands of Romans had been killed, the Carthaginian soldiers went around and cut the rings off the dead Romans and set these bales of rings. And they were dumped out on the floor of the Carthaginians Senate to show the mountain of their triumph over the Roman people. So, Scipio had brought back with him a mountain of Carthaginian silver because Scipio was always a lenient individual. Rarely if ever, when he won a battle or captured a town, did he ever massacre or prosecute. His was the old Roman way of bringing into the larger family fold those who had lost. He would say, you have lost. We have beat you because of not just superior arms, but because of superior vision and capability. And of you will join us that vision and capability will work for you too. And you may participate in the privileges of the future glory of Rome. Which you'd better do anyway because it's inevitable. And here I am as a typical Roman to tell you this. And if you think that I'm impressive, wait until you see the generations coming down the line. He would talk like that. And of course, it was beginning to look more and more like maybe this wasn't a tall tale. He was allowed to sponsor a series of games. Remember he had held the [inaudible] aedileship. And so, he was master of the games as a young man. So, for three days he sponsored games much like the Olympic games in Rome. And then had himself unanimously elected council again. And given as his domain the province of Africa, which had not yet been established. And as part of Africa, he wouldn't have Sicily under his control. There were two councils that year. And the other council who was Pontifex Maximus, which meant that he was also the head of a religious function in the Roman state. And therefore, must stay in Italy. Especially stay in Rome. Whereas his old childhood buddy, Crassus. A man named Crassus. A very excellent man, who made sure that Scipio would have the political backing. And that persons like the conservative element that we're trying to discredit Scipio because he was getting literally too big for Roman boats. And of course, for all they knew, if he was a reincarnation of Alexander the Great, what was there to stop him? Would he pay attention to the strictures of the Senate? He had the fanatical devotion of the Roman Armies. Almost anyone who had served under him would go anywhere he would ask. On his way to Africa, he stopped in Sicily and took a vacation. Because Sicily was a cultivated Greek colony for many hundreds of years, especially in the city of Syracuse where Hiero had been King for about 50 years. It had unparalleled prosperity. And it was like a Greek gem of a city. Much like Alexandria. Smaller version, of course. And Scipio put on a [inaudible] of Greek clothes and began going to the theater and taking his men around and enjoying the Greek culture of Sicily. And of course, people came back to the Roman Senate saying that this is not one of ours. He's one of theirs. Look at him. And one of the first people to begin to accuse him was Cato. Young Cato, seeing a way to making his political ambitions come true. So, he had publicized the fact that he would go and visit the old family cottage while somebody like Scipio was watching Greek plays in Syracuse. And so laid the seeds for a future confrontation. While Scipio was in Sicily, he noted that there was a Carthaginian colony still left. A little city named [inaudible]. And so, [inaudible] a little dab at the Carthaginians, he took some troops and with this great strategic mind taking [inaudible] was no problem whatsoever. But he was in a hurry to get to Africa. And he appointed a very bad individual. As the overseer of [inaudible]. A man named [inaudible]. [inaudible] was a letch and a thief and a terrible sort of an individual and very, very quickly delegates from [inaudible] were appearing yet Rome asking a set up to send a commission. And 10 senators were sent to [inaudible]. And of course, they clap [inaudible] in irons and the enemies of Scipio in Rome were pointing fingers saying, look at the kind of men that he's associating with and putting in charge. But fortunately, Scipio was still above this sort of incrimination. And yet it was a quaver in the air and left a residue. A bitterness among the old agrarian Republicans that maybe this mystic infection, which the Roman people were suffering had better be cured by discrediting the head. It's chief representative in the person of Scipio Africanus. So, these kinds of undercurrents were at play. But meanwhile, Scipio arrived in Africa. And when he arrived, he began to lay siege to Utica, which is one of the large Carthaginian towns. Somewhat North of Carthage. And in his haste to make an impression upon the Carthaginians. They had of course heard of him for many years, four or five years as the undefeated Roman genius. Mystical religious figure. Fabulous personality. And they wanted to crimp him right away. And so, they sent a Carthaginian General named Hanno out with a very large troop of men, hoping to catch Scipio unprepared. But Scipio had already made plans years before and had sent envoys ahead. And one of the Carthaginian allies named Masinissa had prepared himself to revolt on the snap of Scipio's fingers. And very soon after Scipio landed, he keyed Masinissa into a revolt. And Masinissa gathered together a large Numidian cavalry and a battle that [inaudible]. [inaudible] had been a Greek who had invaded the Carthaginian Empire about 150 years before. In front of Utica with several mountains, mounds, hills, and Masinissa this king with his cavalry and waited in the path here. And Scipio began retreating and Hanno began following him and suddenly Masinissa fell upon his [inaudible] with a large Numidian cavalry. And quickly Scipio turned his men and pressed forward with the mobility of the Scipionic line, Hanno was beat in a record time. The battle barely lasted an hour. And news of this went back to Carthage and the Carthaginians began to have this enormous peace faction suddenly surfacing in the city. That maybe they had better deal with this individual because you see Scipio was doing to them what Hannibal had done to the Italian people. All this while Hannibal had marched up and down Italy, finally settling really in the South Southern portion of Italy. In fact, many of the Roman historians say that they were so successful that the troops were becoming degenerate from having grapes fed to them by captive Romans. So many captive Romans and so many grapes that they simply were getting too full to go out and fight. They'd become too successful. Scipio on the other hand was one of these real thunderbolt type personalities who would see to the core of the situation and go immediately there and pay no attention whatsoever to all the onion layers of complications surrounding it. And once to the core would quickly engender in his mind a plan of action for the attainment of that core and then persevere with it. So that's the Battle of the [inaudible]. The Carthaginians sensing that Scipio was probably going to be on an immediate move, sent to enormous armies in to bottle him in between the fortified city of Utica along this peninsula. Two huge armies here. So, that he was between the two armies and the fortress of Utica and was unable to get supplied by a ships and unable to maneuver. And so, he spent the whole winter in that situation. The Carthaginians more and more thinking that they had the genie in the bottle and they had him trapped. And Scipio's men of course, trusting to the fact that since they were with the darling of the Gods, he would find some way, which he did. Typical Scipio visionary move. He noticed that the fortifications of the army camps of the Carthaginians because they had been set up quite rapidly, were made out of log posts with the [inaudible] weaved in between them. And so, Scipio had informed his men that they were going to try to go on the move and break out the next morning and this word was circulated around camp. And meanwhile he made sure that all of his men were fed in the middle of the night and then hours before dawn sent out a group of men and set fire to the barricades of the Carthaginians, who were absolutely astounded and thought that this was an accidental fire that had broke out. So, they were trying to put the fire out meantime, the Romans went around the camp and laid siege to it. And Scipio's Lieutenant Laelius came out and quickly went around this side because they had set fire to this barricade. And so, these men were going to help these men put out a fire and suddenly they realized that Scipio's troops were everywhere with their swords out. And Scipio, by this time had replaced the old Roman stabbing start with the [inaudible] cutting sword. And they destroyed both Carthaginian armies. Well, when dawn came, of course, the people of Carthage were absolutely terrified that maybe they did have a God to contend with because Scipio was pulling rabbits out of the hat faster than they could dream up situations to put him in. And of course, Scipio's men by this time we're fanatically behind him. Whatever he was planning, they were ready to go. So, he disciplined his men and began to seek a way in which to meet on a field of battle in sort of a classic formal way. A Carthaginian army to show them that it wasn't just tricks and games that he was beating them with, but absolute superiority and military conception. This is a biography of Scipio, which is not very good. But I'll, I'll read you a short section here. This by a man named Scullard. He soon conceived a plan as daring and unexpected as the one after his first winter in Spain, when he struck at New Carthage. Learning that the Carthaginian camps were made of branches and reeds without any Earth, he planned to set them on fire. Meanwhile, he deliberately held out hopes of reaching an agreement with Syphax to enable frequent emissaries to be sent with officers and spies disguise as slaves to explore the approaches and entrances and positions of the two hostile camps. So, all this time, he was also trying to win over Carthage's allies by promising them the same kind of conditions that he had promised Masinissa. And in fact, in a very unusual ceremony, he presented Masinissa with an ivory staff, which was the family religious emblem of the Scipio. Scipio means the staff. And it was a carved ivory staff and what he meant by it was that Masinissa was incorporated into his family tradition in a very secret kind of religious paternity sort of a way. And Masinissa in his regard understood that Scipio with all of his charmed Jupiterian thunderbolt qualities and power was inviting him into a share of immortality really with him. And with this ivory staff decided that he was going to help in the, in the battle, which was known as the Battle of the Great Plains. Or in Italian it's called the Battle of the Campi Magni. The Great Plains. And so, Masinissa's Numidian cavalry trained with the Scipionic techniques of maneuver and formed one flank of Scipio's three lines, the hastati, the principes and the triarii. And Laelius who was with Scipio during his 10 years as a council was on the other flank. These setups found that the Carthaginian army, when it faced them on Campi Magni had decided that they were going to try to push through Scipio's front line. And that this would be a way of finally beating him. But after a staff meeting, Scipio decided to divide his forces. This could be done in safety since Syphax had fled. That's another leader who decided to come over but had gone. The Carthaginian force was checked, and the Romans were masters of the interior. Scipio his tactics were of further development for those used in Spain at Ilipa. Previously, the principes, the second line, had stood behind the hastati, either ready to come up into the first line to strengthen it in the actual attack, or to fill any gaps in it. In the same way the triarii were the reserve to the second line. Now the principes and the triarii no longer directly supported the first line. The old triple line was still preserved, but each line formed a self-dependent unit. So, the second line started to file off to the left and the third line fall off to the right until on this enormous plain. Scipio had achieved this enormous, long line of fighting Roman troops. And then of course just wrapped them around like huge bear arms the Carthaginian opponents. And they found themselves absolutely engulfed because the cavalry, which they're expecting to do a flanking motion had been draw off by the Carthaginian cavalry. And it was the incredible infantry that had done the flanking motion. The battle of Campi Magni forced the Carthaginians to finally call Hannibal back from Italy, where he had been for 15 years. And he had been in Spain 20 years before that. So that Hannibal had not been home for some 35 or 36 years. And he was called back and of course, Hannibal with has verve and dash, his unbeaten record landed with great [inaudible]. He began immediately moving inland with a very, very large army. Tremendous cavalry. Tremendous units. And he had been gathering reports about Scipio's techniques and strategies. Scipio in a dream saw this one-eyed figure coming into a battle situation. And he also saw that he has spirit brother Masinissa was the key to his victory. And so, he sent word for Masinissa to join him again. He was over in this area. And Scipio began marching down to meet Hannibal at a place called Zama, near that. And Masinissa was coming in rather slower so that Scipio had to move out this way and then come in. And when they met on the field is two enormous armies camped within about four miles of each other. And the day before the battle commenced Hannibal decided to meet Scipio face to face and see what kind of an individual he was. Whether he was divine or not. And also, to show himself off. And so, with just a couple of [inaudible] these two great undefeated military geniuses met in the valley in between the two camp tribes, almost like the situation in the Bhagavad Gita. And spent the entire day talking to each other with who knows what kind of interest. And at the end of the day, having agreed to kill each other in the morning, they rode back to their respective camps. And the next day, when the troops lined up and the classic battle formations where had Hannibal's enormously sophisticated army had lined up so that there were two of two frontline were very close to each other. And the third line back somewhat. And in front of the [inaudible] line many more elephants. One of the largest concentrations of war elephants ever used in ancient Babylon. And for Scipio's part, he had lined up his troops surprisingly in sort of traditional way, except for the fact that he broke the three lines into segments. And instead of having a segment behind covering the interval, they were matched even. And his cavalry aside as his [inaudible]. When the battle was drawn, Hannibal's third line was a half-step. So that this gap widened. And as the front two lines went together it formed like a solid punching [inaudible], which Hannibal [inaudible] with the disarray of the elephants [inaudible]. That this mass group would literally push the Romans back. And that when the flanking calvary came in to surround this group, Hannibal would use his third line of cavalry [inaudible] army and a butcher the cavalry. And then push on to the line. But Scipio had seen this and he understood. And as the war elephants came on, the front line began to clank their swords on their shields and the elephants began [inaudible] and run through [inaudible] all the way through the whole army. So that the two lines of Hannibal's armed forces suddenly found themselves face to face with the Scipionic line and a fierce battle began developing here. And Hannibal then decided that he would have to beat off the Roman cavalry. So, he sent his cavalry off on the flanks as if they were going way up around. And the Roman cavalry followed them off the field. And Hannibal then thought that he would bring his third line up as a flank. But [inaudible] mobility of these individual units began operating in such a way that the whole line was in motion and began to disintegrate the battle lines that Hannibal set up. Well, very, very late in the day, the two armies pause for about a half an hour to regroup. And if that battlefield was just littered with blood and guts literally. And then Hannibal sent in his whole lines, thinking that without the cavalry that his superior numbers would doom the, the Romans. And as they came in [inaudible] made a kind of [inaudible] almost like a hand to catch this tremendous push of the Carthaginians. And Masinissa and Laelius came back having left the cavalry [inaudible] and on [inaudible] came together in sort of like an implosion strategy. And Hannibal's troops were absolutely decimated. The entire Hannibalic army was literally torn up on the field of battle. And Hannibal left that in disgrace [inaudible] and then we went to Carthage. At this moment, all of Africa was open to Scipio. He had not only beaten the Carthaginians, but he had beaten the terrific demonic image of Hannibal. He had taken the terrific on its own grounds in terms of its own image base and had moved in a mirror compliment and had vanquished it by the same sort of strategy and movement for himself. And at this moment, Scipio realized that all of his allies, as they done in Spain now were trying to call him King. And again, as he had done in Spain, several times, calling his men together, telling him that he was not a King. That he was in fact, a private Roman citizen doing his duty for his country. And that peace would now be had with Carthage. That he had not besieged the city. He had nothing against the Carthaginians as a people. In fact, made sure that they were still viable. Still held some trade ports. But that they no longer had a base from which to build an Empire. And when he went back to Rome, this time he was given a triumph. And in the list of the Roman senators his name was first the following year at Rome, which meant that he was the Prince of the Senate. The Princeps Senatus. And it was a tribute from the Senate of Rome to someone who had been ostensibly always a private individual. That as he represented the people of Rome, more than the Senate of Rome. You remember SPQR, Senatus Populus Que Romanus. The senate and the people of Rome. These two elements work together. And Scipio had been from the people side and now the Senate honored him and made him the Princeps Senatus, the first man of the Senate. In this situation, Scipio found himself suddenly the focus of all of these domestic civil energies that had been in conflict for all of his generation, because he represented too many fundamental old Roman Republicans the epitome of what was wrong with the new Rome. And yet to others, he represented the epitome of what was right with the new Rome. So that there was no middle ground whatsoever. There were fanatics in both sides praising him to the skies or condemning him to the drags for the very same thing. That he was literally a Greek mind on the Roman body and had made of himself a curiosity. I think I read this a quotation from Toynbee. This is from Polybius. Polybius wrote his history about a generation later. And he interviewed all the surviving people at the second Punic War, including Scipio's great Lieutenant Laelius and got all these stories. And this is, this is what he wrote. He wrote in Greek. Now that my narrative has brought me to the point at which I have to record Publius Cornelius Scipio's achievements in Spain. And in fact, to give a general account of the whole of his career. It seems to me to be essential that I should provide my readers with some introduction, introductory instruction about Scipio's policy and character. After all he is perhaps the most celebrated figure in history up to date. So, everyone is eager to know what he was really like and what were the character and the way of life that enabled him to accomplish so many great achievements. At the same time everyone is condemned to ignorance and misapprehension by the unfortunate fact that the information about him has been so remote from the truth. The soundness of this condensed contention of mine will be revealed by the course of my narrative to all readers who are capable of appreciating Scipio's finest and most daring deed. Now Polybius had been given an inside by an adopted descendent of Scipio Africanus. And Polybius had been a Greek, a member of the Achaian league who had been captured. He spent about 16 years in Rome. And while he was there, he became sort of adopted into the inner circle of the patrician Scipio's and it was given all the family records to write this history of the second Punic War and the right to interview all people. And he was taken to the various sites. And he wrote his history of the second Punic War at about the time that the third and final Punic War was taking place and coming to a close. And a lot of Polybius' history is colored by two important facts. One, he believed that the central question of human history was, is there such a thing as fortune? The Greek word is psyche. Is there such a thing as fortune? Do the Gods, or did divine levels play an active role in human life? And if so, then Scipio was in fact, everything that legend claimed for him to be. That there was no way for an individual to have achieved what he had done. And incidentally, he not only extended Rome to all Spain and Africa, but later on his proteges counciling with him also made Asia a province for Rome. And in fact, Scipio was, was always in personal contact with the leaders of the [inaudible] Empire and the Macedonian people, people's leader Phillip. And they respected Scipio as a divine personage. Their correspondence, which survives in fragments shows this. But for Polybius the next generation down the line looking back at Scipio the question was had fortune, had the Gods actually come into play? And if so, what was the purpose of history? What was the purpose of man written large? And was Scipio right in his sharing of the vision of Alexander the Great that the world was to be a single world, an ecumene. That there was no longer to be a polis, a political scheme for mankind, but a cosmo-polis, a cosmopolitan scheme for man, which made up the world one empire of humanity. And that there was such a thing as a universal man. So that this issue for Polybius was paramount. The second great point of Polybius was that he lived at the time, which the third Punic War was brought to a close. And this time the Roman character was permanently bent and misshapen. In the sense that instead of just being [inaudible] again, they laid siege to Carthage. And after great expense in manpower and time not only captured Carthage but some [inaudible] from here. And dug up all the foundation stones, poured salt on the land and completely erased it from human history. And at the same time as this was happening in 146 B.C., they were also moving into Greece in the same way. And Polybius' home ground in the Achaian [inaudible] and several places in Greece were also treated the same way. That the Romans were no longer interested in just winning battles and adding allies to the structure of the Roman people. But they were interested in just obliterating any competition whatsoever if they got in their way. And that Carthage would be a sign to all people from then on throughout history, that there was only one ecumene. There was only one world and Rome was it. That Rome was no longer just to settle the city in Italy, but it'd become a worldwide conception other than which there were only barbarians. So that Polybius was writing in that following generation, he could see that the root person for the understanding of the true meaning of what was happening and what was to be was in the person of Scipio Africanus. And that the context for Scipio was the tremendous Hannibalic incursion for a whole generation in Italy unchecked. And that somehow in the second Punic War, in that confrontation between ultimate good and ultimate evil in terms of Roman eyes, that some basic balance had been struck and that good had won because of a choosing of the Roman people for a historical task, which they could no longer refuse to accept. And anyone who would then refuse their acceptance and the conception of it were to be erased. Much like a new Pharaoh would erase from the obelisk the writing mentioned of successors who, ancestors who had proven undesirable. Only Rome extended it so instead of erasing the hieroglyphic on an obelisk they would erase an enormous populus city from the face of history. And so, we find that with the second Punic War, and all of its classic accounts came from the next generation later, that something had happened in the ancient world. That division of Alexander's ecumene, which had looked like it was transplanted to Alexandria suddenly was snatched away by Rome and held up not so much as the wonderful golden banner or the ivory staff of Scipio, but as the bleeding corpse of Carthage in 146 B.C. So, we, next time, we'll move beyond this event a generation or so and see what is happening in ancient Rome at that time. I hope you will be able to be with us. Thank you. END OF RECORDING